Dating as a Single Mom, Sigh.

L. Leeper 3 min read

I’m sitting on his couch. He has his legs cocked open in comfortable negro fashion. His grey sweat pants offend and attract me; the feelings coexist. He couldn’t get dressed for me? I’m irritated. I found a sitter. I paid her. I brought her food. I listened to her talk because it seemed ill mannered to drop the kids off and bounce without verbal exchange. I fussed with baby dads about needing better schedules. I rushed home to get dressed because he said 8pm, but 8pm isn’t possible when one of your kids thinks he is hulk and insists that hulk doesn’t need showers or clothes. I insisted that hulk still gets ass-whoopins, but hulk isn’t afraid of me. At all. I took a quick shower. I’m in shambles because I’ve waited all week for this night and now I’m late. I hate being late. My hands are shaking and now I’m fucking up my eyebrows in the mirror. I’m trying to twerk away the frustration. That’s not helping my eyebrows. I’m pressed. I start over. More than once. I double moisturize my body, because my skin soaks up coconut oil quickly so I back it up with almond oil. Thighs on thick, this takes awhile. I’m pressed. I grab a cigarette. Can’t smoke weed, the job does random UAs. And weed makes me act odd in front of men I like. I need something to get me in the comfortable oh-I-do-this-all-the-time bag. I hit traffic. I bump my tunes loud. I’m feeling myself because my dress is tight and I forgot I had body like this. It’s been awhile. I pull up. I come inside. I sit on his couch. I stare at him in his grey sweats and fussy hair. He smiles. Damn he looks good, but sweat pants! Not jeans. Not the slim cut joggers. Nothing that says we are leaving the couch.

“I missed you so much.” He places a hand on my double moisturized thigh. He realizes it’s double moisturized. “Your skin is soft.”

“Thank you babe. I missed you too.” We sit. We have great conversation but he gets a call and advises me our time has to be cut short.

The amount of screams my lungs could afford. I felt like hulk now. But this hulk showers and puts on nice clothes and takes time out of her schedule for kicking back on a couch next to a laissez-faire dude who doesn’t understand that I’m not a 19 year old with an abundance of free time.

I wanted to come off as the girl that doesn’t trip. The calm one who doesn’t come with a bunch of baggage. I didn’t want to put too much on it. I wanted to catch a vibe. But all I could think is where is this going? How often do we do this before we do something else? You’re too expensive for such a cheap experience, what exactly am I investing in? I’m caught between wanting to be your fantasy girl who just “gets it”. But I don’t fucking get it. And fantasy was taken away from me when I became a single parent of two. The only fantasy I understand is ninja war with the kids where I become the villain and they stop at nothing to take me down. That’s fun. This isn’t.

I left his couch and hit the nearest bar.


30 responses to “Dating as a Single Mom, Sigh.”

  1. Greetings once again….
    (responding to your a few of your posts)
    excerpts here are from your post about buying condoms and your post about love languages.

    “Also, I’d be remiss not to mention sexually transmitted diseases, I haven’t met anyone worth dying or itching for. Ultimately, I’ve resolved to keeping the condoms on deck.
    I received a promising phone call late one night from a cool shorty I had been rocking with for a time. Realizing that I needed to re-up on the latex I decided to stop by my local gas station on the way to his crib.”
    Solo’s response
    “keeping condoms on deck” DID sound like an emergency stash. Continuing on though you state you needed to “re-up on the latex”. 
    Hmmm….that no longer sounds like an emergency stash and it is later confirmed as we flick through the glimpses of your thoughts in this viewmaster. 
    Below, you finally state…
    “Which is interesting, because buying condoms, as a woman, should be liberating. This should be the socially acceptable thing to do. I am having responsible sex! Where is the pat on the back? Where is the confetti? Sign me up as your next keynote speaker! Isn’t this great?
    I encourage women to buy condoms, often. We should normalize it. Besides, in my experience men don’t carry their own anymore like they did in the 90’s, it’s up to us. You will get weird looks and sometimes terrible customer service, but it’s worth it.”
    Solo’s response
    Perhaps as a woman, it is liberating to you. I don’t know, I am not a woman, but I definitely see the responsible side of doing so. 
    As you finish this with, “Besides, in my experience men don’t carry their own anymore like they did in the 90’s, it’s up to us.”
    You go on to state that it is worth it. I agree, no one is worth dying over and no sex should be good enough to itch over. 
    Men who carry the discipline and DICKscipline coupled with a responsible outlook on life usually tend to be “boring” guys to an extent. A man who exercises NOT engaging in all of the exciting forms of pleasure (due to the risks) tend to be a lot less “passionate” if you will. 
    Including some of the thoughts you wrote about “broke men being the best lovers”…. Young men who “plan” and prepare for the future, use restraint and stay focused on the destination (home, stability and a “good” life) are, as I said, not so wild and, from what you wrote in your post about love languages…
    ” Non-needy people are boring. Selfish. And exhausted. They think they can make it out here alone. They think that they are meant to survive unscathed. Prophets can die for love, but yet the everyday fool is above it? I’m disgusted. Keep me here. Don’t think about it too much, do it. Do it. Do it. Love me in every language you can think of. Make one up when you run out. I want all the love.”
    …they too fall into that “boring” category. 
    A man who is geared for the responsibilities of a family IS going to THINK ABOUT IT TOO MUCH! 
    It does not mean that they have no passions, no emotions, no spirit or feelings, but…they have practiced restraint and they understand the consequences of indulgences beyond “reason”. …and so do you at your age now. 
    What I see here though, is your appetite for that zest of life or spiritual energy is still a thirst that you need to quench. Unfortunately, the only men who can completely satisfy that are those men who lack restraint and discard responsibility. 
    Is it “worth it” to fuck a guy who lacks the basic responsibility and fortitude to keep his own condoms? 
    It must be good to you, or else, you would demand that he does…and if he does not, you would ignore your passions for the wild sex with him. 
    This is NOT to say that you are wrong or that you are a sin. Responsible people should not be so god damned boring…but society is structured in such a way that there are some really harsh consequences for not governing ourselves in a responsible manner. 
    When a responsible man finds out (and it will not be the first date or the first two weeks of you dating him) but HE WILL FIND OUT because your ‘needs’ will manifest themselves in the form of disrespect of “him” because he is “boring” and moving in such a way to reduce (not eliminate) “scathing”. When he realizes that irresponsible men “appeal” to you more than he does…that will be the end of your relationship. 

    Those men don’t appeal to you BECAUSE they are irresponsible, they appeal to you because of their passion and excitement about life and feeling. 
    That’s not a bad thing…but things like babies, STDs and other shit come as a result. 
    A life planned with discipline is a “good” life and a “stable” life but it is usually a boring life. 

    I guess you have to decide what you can do without, (based on this post, it does not seem like you are used to telling yourself “no”) to receive something “good” and “stable”. 
    Not sure if it can faked, most responsible men usually catch on at some point. 
    …and yes, there is a very nasty intersection where irresponsible guys and responsible guys cross paths. That intersection has no traffic devices and the pile ups usually have heavy casualties. 
    The women whom have interacted with both men are the conduit where the disdain and disrespect that responsible men have for the irresponsible dudes of the world manifests itself the most. 
    By the same token, the women are also the same conduit that irresponsible men express their disrespect of the boring, responsible guys of the world (usually due to their success). 
    There is no greater embarrassment for a responsible man to realize the children he took on (who belong to Mr. Irresponsible) are mothered by his woman, girlfriend or wife who still longs, needs or god forbid, “respects” Mr. Irresponsible and feels that her boring ass husband…is well “boring” and not enough for her. 

    Solo

    • The Dating as a Single Mom post is dated, I’ve went through a phase of casual dating and I thought it funny and important to talk about my experience buying condoms. I received a lot of private messages telling me how encouraging this post was for women who are sexually active so I am at peace with what was written.

      I do want to note that I no longer discuss casual sex–there is nothing casual about sex, however this was a phase that was recorded and simply hasn’t been removed from my page, and I suppose I haven’t because I love that it emphasizes safe sex and since people are going to have it anyway there might as well be mention of the best way to do it.

      I tell myself “no” often, I realize that people are so eager to place others in a category that they will scrap at anything possible without having full information on a person, to make a grand assumption about my character based on a blog post makes me reevaluate how seriously your commentary can be taken if you don’t have the wisdom enough to know that this is a self-expressive blog, not one that provides a full scope of my real life.

      I don’t need a discipline speech, I know the value of it, there would be no discussion of using protection if I was promoting doing everything on a whim.

      Addressing your comment about the “boring” man, I have no problem with a boring man, and I also am not promoting being with someone irresponsible, not sure how you got that. This blog isn’t meant for me to preach any particular opinion but to be full of honest observations and creative expression. All of my thoughts and feelings are not acted on, as an adult I’d be unwise to think I can live a life of irresponsibility without consequence. My writing is meant to be a way to express unpopular feelings and ideas in relation to romance and the human experience, its not meant to be a directive on how to live life and I hope that it is not alluding that I am living recklessly because that is surely not the case.

      You seem to be among the men who believe unwed mothers are valueless, all of your dialogue in a roundabout way points back to that notion. I think its weird to be disgusted by one of the most beautiful things a woman can do, which is to bring children in the world. I think we are over politicizing it and making character judgement that do neither party any good. If we care anything about rebuilding the black community as we say we do than why not talk about how to mend broken families and offer solutions to remedy the situation versus spending time degrading the women? To me that shows the intentions are not pure and all of it is a smoke screen for deeper trauma that men have with women.

      • “The Dating as a Single Mom post is dated, I’ve went through a phase of casual dating and I thought it funny and important to talk about my experience buying condoms. I received a lot of private messages telling me how encouraging this post was for women who are sexually active so I am at peace with what was written.

        I do want to note that I no longer discuss casual sex–there is nothing casual about sex, however this was a phase that was recorded and simply hasn’t been removed from my page, and I suppose I haven’t because I love that it emphasizes safe sex and since people are going to have it anyway there might as well be mention of the best way to do it.”

        Perhaps I should have emphasized the fact that I said I see it as a “responsible” thing to do. I was not in disagreement with it. I was focused more on the fact that you eluded to the apparent reality that men carrying their own condoms seems to have gone the way of the cassette tape with the 90s. Yes, it is up to women if you are dating men who don’t take that responsibility seriously.
        Casual or not (who cares), people have sex, yes…we’re adults here. However, what drives the desire for a man or men (since you stated it was your experience) who don’t carry their own? (rhetorical)
        An even better question, if a man calls you for a rendezvous and he does not have any latex of his own, was he intending to sleep with you raw? (also rhetorical)
        After reading your post about the love languages, I sort of understood (I think, perhaps I am wrong though) the passion, spirit, zest, connection, etc. that you desire with a man you are involved with. I don’t know if it is impossible to get that type of connection with responsible people, because yeah….we do THINK ABOUT IT TOO MUCH (lol) and most don’t just let go…we can’t afford to. There does seem to be a correlation between irresponsible dudes and that level of connection you wrote about…
        It was this part that stood out with me…

        as I quoted above…
        ” Non-needy people are boring. Selfish. And exhausted. They think they can make it out here alone. They think that they are meant to survive unscathed. Prophets can die for love, but yet the everyday fool is above it? I’m disgusted. Keep me here. Don’t think about it too much, do it. Do it. Do it. Love me in every language you can think of. Make one up when you run out. I want all the love.”

        What you said here is an area that “boring” men tread very carefully. Childless men don’t remain childless while NOT thinking about it too much. Planning people, some of them, actually pride themselves on their ability to resist this very valuable piece of the human experience if it strays too far into irresponsible territory.

        “You seem to be among the men who believe unwed mothers are valueless, all of your dialogue in a roundabout way points back to that notion. I think its weird to be disgusted by one of the most beautiful things a woman can do, which is to bring children in the world.”

        I can take that if you can understand how equally “disgusted” you sound with what you wrote about non-needy people being boring, selfish, exhausted and how their thoughts are geared in such a way to survive life unscathed.

        You are correct in the fact that bringing children into the world is one of the most beautiful things a woman can do.
        I wonder why people who exercise restraint are considered “boring”, selfish, etc. when they are the people who try to maintain a structure of stability for future woman and children? Why isn’t that considered “beautiful”? Why isn’t properly planning for a future with a wife (so the hell what if it is boring) considered “beautiful”?
        Or perhaps they are doing it just for themselves and they are minimizing the scathing of life as much as possible. No one makes it out totally unscathed, but you can reduce it to an extent.

        “Prophets can die for love, but yet the everyday fool is above it?”

        Everyday fools? Really?

        I don’t know any prophets personally and since you brought up dying for love…the concepts of manhood and men being taught to ignore or suppress their feelings are the lifelong preparation for a man laying down his life for his wife and children if it ever comes down to it. “Women and children first or only” ….men are to go down with the ship as gentlemen.
        I am just curious, why isn’t preparing for the financial realities of life, marriage and family with all of their BORING, selfish and exhausting tenets not on par with the prophets who would die for love? Why would a man be considered a “fool” for trying to do it and reduce risks?

        jus’ sayin’

        I was not ‘on’ that show, I only listened. I did not agree with “some” of the things that were suggested to you as solutions. I don’t think you need therapy any more or any less than anyone else out here. I also don’t think that you are or should be considered a gold digger because you would seek a man who is financially stable. I also recognize that people make errors (especially when they are young).

        You asked about solutions, I was only looking at some of your thoughts in these blogs and because I DO have experience with single mothers who also had similar thoughts to your own (at least the ones expressed here), I recognize the familiar ones which were at the root of some of the issues they had with me as well as a few other responsible guys.

        “I think we are over politicizing it and making character judgement that do neither party any good. If we care anything about rebuilding the black community as we say we do than why not talk about how to mend broken families and offer solutions to remedy the situation versus spending time degrading the women?”

        Mending broken families?
        That’s loaded but I would say, one of the first things that needs to be done is many of the fathers of a lot of these children need gainful employment so they can provide for them.
        However, you were on the show discussing or asking for solutions pertaining to being with childless men beyond just dating them?

        Solo

  2. Greetings once again…. (I did not realize you cannot edit here. I did not separate the quotes)

    (responding to your a few of your posts)
    excerpts here are from your post about buying condoms and your post about love languages.

    “Also, I’d be remiss not to mention sexually transmitted diseases, I haven’t met anyone worth dying or itching for. Ultimately, I’ve resolved to keeping the condoms on deck.
    I received a promising phone call late one night from a cool shorty I had been rocking with for a time. Realizing that I needed to re-up on the latex I decided to stop by my local gas station on the way to his crib.”

    Solo’s response
    “keeping condoms on deck” DID sound like an emergency stash. Continuing on though you state you needed to “re-up on the latex”.
    Hmmm….that no longer sounds like an emergency stash and it is later confirmed as we flick through the glimpses of your thoughts in this viewmaster.

    Below, you finally state…
    “Which is interesting, because buying condoms, as a woman, should be liberating. This should be the socially acceptable thing to do. I am having responsible sex! Where is the pat on the back? Where is the confetti? Sign me up as your next keynote speaker! Isn’t this great?
    I encourage women to buy condoms, often. We should normalize it. Besides, in my experience men don’t carry their own anymore like they did in the 90’s, it’s up to us. You will get weird looks and sometimes terrible customer service, but it’s worth it.”

    Solo’s response
    Perhaps as a woman, it is liberating to you. I don’t know, I am not a woman, but I definitely see the responsible side of doing so.
    As you finish this with, “Besides, in my experience men don’t carry their own anymore like they did in the 90’s, it’s up to us.”
    You go on to state that it is worth it. I agree, no one is worth dying over and no sex should be good enough to itch over.
    Men who carry the discipline and DICKscipline coupled with a responsible outlook on life usually tend to be “boring” guys to an extent. A man who exercises NOT engaging in all of the exciting forms of pleasure (due to the risks) tend to be a lot less “passionate” if you will.
    Including some of the thoughts you wrote about “broke men being the best lovers”….

    Young men who “plan” and prepare for the future, use restraint and stay focused on the destination (home, stability and a “good” life) are, as I said, not so wild and, from what you wrote in your post about love languages…

    ” Non-needy people are boring. Selfish. And exhausted. They think they can make it out here alone. They think that they are meant to survive unscathed. Prophets can die for love, but yet the everyday fool is above it? I’m disgusted. Keep me here. Don’t think about it too much, do it. Do it. Do it. Love me in every language you can think of. Make one up when you run out. I want all the love.”

    …they too fall into that “boring” category.

    A man who is geared for the responsibilities of a family IS going to THINK ABOUT IT TOO MUCH!
    It does not mean that they have no passions, no emotions, no spirit or feelings, but…they have practiced restraint and they understand the consequences of indulgences beyond “reason”. …and so do you at your age now.
    What I see here though, is your appetite for that zest of life or spiritual energy is still a thirst that you need to quench. Unfortunately, the only men who can completely satisfy that are those men who lack restraint and discard responsibility.
    Is it “worth it” to fuck a guy who lacks the basic responsibility and fortitude to keep his own condoms?
    It must be good to you, or else, you would demand that he does…and if he does not, you would ignore your passions for the wild sex with him.
    This is NOT to say that you are wrong or that you are a sin. Responsible people should not be so god damned boring…but society is structured in such a way that there are some really harsh consequences for not governing ourselves in a responsible manner.
    When a responsible man finds out (and it will not be the first date or the first two weeks of you dating him) but HE WILL FIND OUT because your ‘needs’ will manifest themselves in the form of disrespect of “him” because he is “boring” and moving in such a way to reduce (not eliminate) “scathing”. When he realizes that irresponsible men “appeal” to you more than he does…that will be the end of your relationship.

    Those men don’t appeal to you BECAUSE they are irresponsible, they appeal to you because of their passion and excitement about life and feeling.
    That’s not a bad thing…but things like babies, STDs and other shit come as a result.
    A life planned with discipline is a “good” life and a “stable” life but it is usually a boring life.

    I guess you have to decide what you can do without, (based on this post, it does not seem like you are used to telling yourself “no”) to receive something “good” and “stable”.
    Not sure if it can faked, most responsible men usually catch on at some point.

    …and yes, there is a very nasty intersection where irresponsible guys and responsible guys cross paths. That intersection has no traffic devices and the pile ups usually have heavy casualties.
    The women whom have interacted with both men are the conduit where the disdain and disrespect that responsible men have for the irresponsible dudes of the world manifests itself the most.
    By the same token, the women are also the same conduit that irresponsible men express their disrespect of the boring, responsible guys of the world (usually due to their financial or material success).
    There is no greater embarrassment for a responsible man to realize the children he took on (who belong to Mr. Irresponsible) are mothered by his woman, girlfriend or wife who still longs, needs or god forbid, “respects” Mr. Irresponsible’s zest, passion and spiritual energy and feels that her boring ass husband…is well “boring” and not enough for her.

    Solo

  3. “I think its weird to be disgusted by one of the most beautiful things a woman can do, which is to bring children in the world. I think we are over politicizing it and making character judgement that do neither party any good. ”

    Bingo!!! You have just pointed out the major issue.
    Responsible men DO politicize their own plans for having their own children and just living even if they don’t want any children. They can’t prioritize the beauty of bringing life into the world OVER the realities of money, resources and sound planning where children are concerned.
    The problem is NOT what you did in the past (if he accepts you and your children) the problem lies in the fact that HIS life is rigid and riddled with politics, planning, etc (you know, the boring stuff…oh yeah and there is probably a lack of passion in some important areas).
    When you move forward with HIM, the question is whether or not you can be that rigid in your thinking, planning and living? …and most of all, whether or not you actually “respect” it.

    Some people don’t feel life should be that rigid and definitely if it comes at the expense of a lot of the passions and the “tasting” of life in the emotional sense.

    I am not saying whether they are right or wrong for feeling this way… I am saying that responsible guys don’t live like that.
    Forget your past…but when you are looking at the future with a guy like that, just know, understand and respect the rigidness of a man like that. Whether you do the leaving or he leaves you, jus sayin’ you might be with him very long if you don’t get this part.

    Anyway…take care

    • The key part of the quote you pulled is, “OVER politicizing,” while I understand these are important decisions what I was referring to is the discouraging of men getting into relationships w single mothers. I meant that the politicizing of that notion is dangerous.

      I respect a man being clear about his path and direction, I also know that two things can be true at once, you can be intentional and well planned with a woman who has children. This is all a case by case basis.

      In reading your various commentary I don’t really think we are disagreeing. I think maybe you believe I feel things that I don’t. I understand there’s reasons to be cautious in dating a mother with children. But there’s reasons to be cautious when dating a woman too young or too old or from a certain area with a certain upbringing from a certain background. There’s always a reason to say no. There’s always a reason to be skeptical. But I think that choice should be made by the individual male and not brought on by other men who have their own set of reasons and trauma for doing what they do.

      It’s fine to find me undesirable but as the saying goes, “one mans trash is another mans treasure.” I have qualities that no matter how fresh of a woman you find, another woman could never match. This is why I refuse to consider myself valueless, my value doesn’t lie just in my womb. If I’m too expensive than that man can decide that for himself, but I know larges families who do well with middle class incomes, it’s all possible if the man wants it to be. And I wouldn’t want a man who didn’t want to make the possible impossible for us.

      Thanks for the chat.

  4. “I respect a man being clear about his path and direction, I also know that two things can be true at once, you can be intentional and well planned with a woman who has children.”

    Yeah, the typos are no big deal.
    I hope that you don’t miss this…
    I do agree that you can be deliberate, intentional, focuses and well planned with a woman who has children. I was not suggesting that you can’t.
    What I said is the thoughts you wrote about the love languages do tie into some very serious and fundamental differences (most of the time…but not always) where responsible dudes are concerned.
    Responsible men do tend to lack in passion in many of the areas you mentioned BECAUSE we have practiced suppressing, ignoring or regulating those emotions over the years.
    Let me say this another way…
    Not all single mothers have the same thoughts that you mentioned in some of the posts you have on this site. So that is to say, the issue is NOT the “fact” that she is a single mother.

    ” Non-needy people are boring. Selfish. And exhausted. They think they can make it out here alone. They think that they are meant to survive unscathed. Prophets can die for love, but yet the everyday fool is above it? I’m disgusted. Keep me here. Don’t think about it too much, do it. Do it. Do it. Love me in every language you can think of. Make one up when you run out. I want all the love.”

    This right here is fairly “disrespectful” (I am using air quotes around that word for a reason) of very responsible men.
    Litsha, please just give it some thought…admiration is different than respect. Claiming to “respect” men who are clear about their paths is much easier to say or “claim” than to actually do. Especially with the thoughts you expressed above.

    Jus sayin.

    We will break the mood if necessary to prevent an error.
    We will think about it too much.
    We do not follow our hearts. (Your heart will get you into trouble that your brain will have to get you out of). Heart is great for feeling, but it needs regulation…and we do practice that.
    We are exhausted from thinking all of the time. (and we will continue)
    We do keep the scathing to a minimum. (and yes, that does make us boring)
    Anything that we “make up” will be well thought out and planned. We don’t engage in spontaneity too terribly often.

    We are also fairly cool people when we do actually relax (which is not often) its the payoff for the hard work and achievement we actually do accomplish. The abstract idea is not to be rewarded. The realization and completion of the idea’s destination is what is to be celebrated.
    When going to the Coors Brewery for a tour, when we reach a sign that reads, “Coors Brewery Next Exit” ….we don’t get out and hug the sign, we know we are not at the brewery yet.
    We know that you can’t have your own cake and eat it too….because your own cake will make you sick.

    ” I want all the love.”

    You can’t have all of it and we don’t expect all of it. Especially if you have kids already…jeez.

    We want love…but not ALL of it.
    When you run out of love languages, you don’t have to make one up…it’s cool, we already know the world is mathematically repetitious. Starting with the fact that the earth rotates around the sun…REPEATEDLY and on a fairly consistent time frame. Hell, you can set your clock to it. Nice and precise!

    “This is why I refuse to consider myself valueless”

    I never said any such thing.
    But since you did state that you find it “dangerous” for people to suggest the avoidance of single mothers….let’s be clear on something…
    I told my nephew to leave single mothers alone as long as he is not a father himself.
    Parenthood is not for the faint of heart, its not something to be taken lightly and ready-made-families ARE something that two people with shared experiences are better suited for.
    Considering you did state that you (at one time, though your mind has changed I assume) did not want a man with children yourself.
    You wanted a man to deal with something (a parent) that you were NOT willing to deal with yourself (and you ARE a parent).
    I would venture to say, you obviously must have had some reason for this selfishness, I mean “preference”? (rhetorical). Whatever your reasoning was…was probably damned good. ..and whatever wisdom was in that reasoning is the same wisdom that needs to be explained to those who don’t have that wisdom. Your post about having children before you are married explained this clearly because you stated…

    “The point is that my environment was teeming with unwed women baring babies. Yet none of these sistas who experienced the cold of a mans shoulder ever stopped to put me or any of my cousins and homies on game about baring children, what is required to raise them, and what you should do before having them. So, as a single parent, allow me to do the honors.”

    Why isn’t it “dangerous” for you to put young women “ON GAME”?

    your quote
    “Single parenting is nowhere near as awesome as doing everything together as a team”

    If you can say that, then I can say, “ready-made-families” are nowhere near as awesome as starting a family with a woman from the same childless position you are in and doing everything together as a team”.

    getting back to my point though…and as you stated on the show, you were not alone in this thinking. It is a very common thought process among many single mothers.
    YOU feel that you have qualities that will exceed any other woman regardless of how “fresh” she is. I wonder why you did not feel that a father could have qualities that would exceed any childless man that was out there regardless of how “fresh” (bad choice of word for a dude..but anyway) he was? (rhetorical)

    in your “we should not have children before marriage” blog, you put girls ON GAME about waiting until marriage but somehow or another YOU (a single mother) exceed all of those who would remain childless until they are married?

    “I have qualities that no matter how fresh of a woman you find, another woman could never match.”

    What would be the point of any of them waiting until they are married if the woman with the unmatched qualities is a single mother? (rhetorical)

    anyway…
    ” Non-needy people are boring. Selfish. And exhausted. They think they can make it out here alone. They think that they are meant to survive unscathed. Prophets can die for love, but yet the everyday fool is above it? I’m disgusted. Keep me here. Don’t think about it too much, do it. Do it. Do it. Love me in every language you can think of. Make one up when you run out. I want all the love.”

    Just know that this quote IS disrespectful of forward planning, critical thinking, responsible guys.

    Kap

  5. by the way…the mere fact that you EVER stated that you would have “preferred” a childless man over a single father (while you are a mother yourself) definitely means that if you were childless yourself, a single father could not get the time of day from you.

    I was not suggesting that you have no VALUE…
    I met you on a realistic playing field based on some of your own thoughts…

    Being responsible and focused is a great thing….but the rigid nature of being responsible is “offset” by other liabilities. (I am acknowledging a flaw in being a responsible adult…one that you pointed out)

    Being a good mother is a great thing as well…but it does “offset” your other values to a degree.
    (yet somehow your qualities rank a value that cannot be matched by ANY woman even if she has no children…you don’t acknowledge any offset at all. You put yourself on par with childless women. Amazing! …and yet you are trying to teach young women to wait until they are married before they bring children into the world? If they can be just as awesome with the children, why would they wait?)

    You are the inescapable result of your ideas pertaining to amount of incredible love that you felt at 18 years old. Clearly this was your emotions operating without the benefit of intellect. An amount of love that you compared to similar love that prophets have died for.

    ….and we are the inescapable result of our focused, rigid and restraint based practices. We pay a price with the insults and disrespect of our behavior described in your post about love languages.

    You lumped us into a category of “everyday fools” …why? Because we are not prophets?

    Think about the fact that you lumped very focused and responsible men and people into a “fool” category.
    Now think about the fact that you claim to “respect” us.
    That’s insulting.

    Your quote about Beta men
    “Beta always answers the phone, have no personal boundaries, and refuses to see that I’m a strong eight on a normal day. He knows that I am ridiculous and supports it with gusto.”

    Knows that you are RIDICULOUS? ….and still supports it because he has no personal BOUNDARIES?

    I asked you is it “beta” to take on another man’s kids.
    Now think about your answer to this question while looking through your own observation of what a beta is.

    We actually believe in the same thing you are trying to put young girls “ON GAME” about. However, the only issue is we don’t believe it ONLY applies to women.
    It applies to young men too…and it applies to “ready-made-families” …which you obviously feel the same way, because you did not PREFER a ready-made-family when it came to your own criteria for mate selection. You “lowering” your original standard to accommodate single fathers is irrelevant.

    • This is one of the major issues that I had with the broadcast that I called into, there are preconceived notions from both the host and the viewers that color over everything I said, it is evident in the fact that you and his viewers continue to tell me I said things that I did NOT say and it is mind blowing at best. I NEVER said that I prefer childless men. I said that I attract childless men and that maybe if I attracted men with children it would not be as much of an obstacle to get over.

      I say that I can compete with childless women because I know what my greatest qualities are and that there aren’t many women (or men for that matter) who possess some of my greatest attributes and to a potential partner this is something that they take into consideration when dating me, its the reason I get in the door. To some men my great attributes will not be enough to offset me having children, but again this is an individual decision that every man has to make for himself. There is no overarching “right” answer to whether or not he should date me, its a personal choice, I cannot stress that enough. Its also a personal choice that I respect no matter which direction it goes.

      I do think women should wait until marriage to have children and my reason for telling them to wait has never had anything to do with being considered less than a woman without children, the focus has been on how difficult single parenting is and that a nuclear family is what is best because of the structure and stability it provides a child with. I never talk about competing with childless women, there are people like you who can stress that for me, I see.

      I honestly think that there is a rage that you and the men who follow Kev have towards women, particularly single mothers, this isn’t about me, its deeper than that and that’s what should be focused on. To have this much frustration towards a woman who still wants to find love and happiness is really odd to me, you’d think I said something radical or murderous. I plan on still pursuing love and I want to be with a man who is doing well for himself whether he has kids or not. I’m not going to date someone who is okay with mediocrity just because I had children young, to me that is not setting the best example for my kids if I was to bring any type of man into their lives. I will not be convinced that I don’t deserve a good man and that seems to be the point of this entire discussion, you want me to say I don’t deserve a good man and I simply will not give you that satisfaction.

      I have dated high quality men and will continue to do so. My expectations are not too high. I’m not expecting someone wealthy or someone necessarily at the top of the food chain. There is a lot I am willing to compromise on, but children or not, that is something anyone in a relationship has to do anyway, compromise.

      What I want to know, ultimately, is if I am wrong in what I’m assuming you want please correct me. Because it sounds like you’re going around in circles just to try to trap me into saying I deserve the bare minimum of a man, a reckless man, a broke man etc. And if that is indeed what you’re saying than just say that and we can agree to disagree otherwise I’m not getting where you’re going with this.

      Some of the blog posts you are quoting are meant to be a sort of prose / poem fit for artistic expression and you’re reading way too deep into it. A lot of things that I have blogged about have been a matter of expressing a momentary emotion and is not meant to be a looking glass into how I handle my affairs. A person can feel a variety of emotions, you cannot control what you feel, you can only control what you do and that is where true discipline comes in– when you fight against your internal desires and do what is best instead. I do not act on everything that I have blogged about, the beauty about this blog is to point out things we all feel, exploring the sinister side of human nature so that we can better understand ourselves and each other. This blog isn’t meant to be preachy or a play-by-play of every decision I make romantically.

      I also will say that there are flaws about myself that I have blogged about knowing that they are flaws and wanting to explore them in a free way. It’s not meant to be logical, it is meant to be honest.

      • “This is one of the major issues that I had with the broadcast that I called into, there are preconceived notions from both the host and the viewers that color over everything I said, it is evident in the fact that you and his viewers continue to tell me I said things that I did NOT say and it is mind blowing at best. I NEVER said that I prefer childless men. I said that I attract childless men and that maybe if I attracted men with children it would not be as much of an obstacle to get over.”

        My apologies. Getting that wrong, I have to retract what I said pertaining to it.

        However, I will confirm your ideas about the anger that is directed at single mothers. Regardless of quality, there is no way for you to compete with yourself prior to you becoming a mother. In other words, you can’t even compete with yourself.
        1.)There is a value placed on the childless because there are experiences that a man can have with them that they can NEVER have with you. No existing quality on you nor any improvement will ever allow a man to experience fathering a child (boy or girl) as a shared NEW experience with you. You have already have a FIRST BORN son and a FIRST BORN daughter (If I read your blog right).

        2.) I did err on what was said with the show. Again, I apologize, I like to based my ideas on facts and not speculation. Your blogs on the other hand are not speculation. YOU wrote them. The ideas you have about responsible or “non-needy” people or both are not uncommon.
        Suggesting that we are “everyday fools” because we don’t carry the status of prophets? Really? Perhaps you feel that is a good basis for the way you conducted yourself over the years..I don’t know. But what you did in the past is not as important as how you “feel” today about this matter. I am very familiar with people who prefer to FEEL as opposed to THINK.
        Religious and spiritual people ALSO share some of your ideas about those who prefer to think on their own as opposed to allow their feelings or “God” to guide them.
        It is highly insulting for you to suggest that we should engage in the same emotion-based behavior that got you scathed as a young woman with children (the permanent) with temporaries.

        Yes…there are many feelings that…well…FEEL GOOD, but as you stated, they aren’t always to be acted on. It’s not that we don’t feel the same things…but we practice discipline. The more you do it, the more second nature it becomes. ..and yes, it does come at a boring expense. Your blog was insulting to those of us who could not care less about what some prophet did. They don’t get any special place with responsible people that humbles us to a point of foolishness. Making an error…yes, we do that too…but what you wrote below, THAT is foolishness. You always THINK about it TOO MUCH.

        “Don’t think about it too much, do it. Do it. Do it.”

        ..and if you don’t think about it too much, you damned sure don’t INTENTIONALLY squelch your thinking.

        If you want to use the fact that motherhood is more difficult as the reason you are encouraging young women not do it until they are married…that’s fine.
        I could easily flip this one another way…why not encourage childless women to date single fathers who have incredible qualities such as yourself. You can’t possibly be the ONLY one. I mean…since it is so “cool” to do so, encourage them to wait for marriage to a man who already has children. There really should be no difference if he is as hellified as you are. Again, you can’t be the only one.
        I am saying that ready-made-families are also MORE difficult than starting with someone who is just as fresh to the game of family as you are.
        YOUR qualities, no matter what they are….does not trump the fact that it is more difficult to start with you because of your ready-made-status from a logistical standpoint….as opposed to a childless woman. You may possess some greater qualities as a “woman” than some childless women, but the difficulties that come with you being a “mother” are still there. The childless woman does not come with the other difficulties.
        We are not “warning” childless men about YOU…we are warning them about those difficulties that DO NOT disappear with YOU.
        In other words, school clothing is NOT less money because they are with The Incredible Litsha. The length of a parent-teacher conference does not shorten because they are with The Incredible Litsha. Issue with your children’s father”s” are still ISSUES, when they arise, and Litsha being the most hellified woman to ever walk the earth DOES NOT change that reality.

        No one is saying you don’t deserve a quality man, but your arrogance about competing in childless circles is not something that childless people take lightly. Women tend to be a little less vocal about it because “sisterhoods” are usually stronger than “brotherhoods”…but make no mistake about it, no childless woman likes to hear any childless man tell a story pertaining to his involvement with a woman with children. In other words, they are sick of it too.
        ..and let me be completely clear with you about childless circles… Those of us who do plan for things like children (as important and as complicated as that IS) don’t take kindly to you suggesting you doing the most “beautiful thing a woman can do” (bringing forth life into the world) solely based on a love that had no dark spots and the child bonding you forever as though that is on par with what we do in planning.
        Your children are no less valuable to the world than those of a couple who planned for theirs….but, your emotion based planning at 18 is not on par with mature planning. The issue is how much of that type of thinking are you still carrying around?
        Your thoughts on “non-needy” people are very telling and they are outright offensive.

        One of the reasons you might not attract men with children is they already know the responsibilities involved. ..and although having children does not make one an “alpha” ….your description of “betas” and their characteristics DO suggest a beta would be more apt to take you and your situation on due to his lack of personal boundaries for one.
        Your description of the two types of men ONLY stated the “The alpha, who knows where to take me and surprises me with new experiences, he is a true leader at his core.”
        Funny I did not see that word “leader”, let alone it couple with the “true” prefix when you were describing “betas”.

        “What I want to know, ultimately, is if I am wrong in what I’m assuming you want please correct me. Because it sounds like you’re going around in circles just to try to trap me into saying I deserve the bare minimum of a man, a reckless man, a broke man etc. And if that is indeed what you’re saying than just say that and we can agree to disagree otherwise I’m not getting where you’re going with this.”

        1.) I would never suggest a woman with children be with a broke man. I also would not refer to you as a gold digger. It is a matter of responsibility that you date men who are well-to-do and interested in families. You are already aware of the fact that you are expensive and unfortunately you chained yourself to that reality when you had children.
        So it’s not a “sexy” expensive.
        I don’t suggest that women date broke men EVER. From a financial standpoint, there are extreme differences when it comes to dating a woman with children as opposed to a childless woman. Even if the cost is the same, the main issue is you are investing in the children of another MAN. This does NOT ever go away.
        Considering you stated that you made a conscious decision to give birth at 18, that pretty much makes you NOT a victim. Having a child out of wedlock is not even the issue (at least not for the purpose of this discussion). The issue is whether or not you DECIDED to have a baby without proper resources.
        The problem with this reality (if that is the case) is you made a decision for anyone who wants to be with you in the future. They did not have the opportunity to DECIDE with their own maturity or discipline. They NOW have to assume a responsibility that another man did not take on…and that includes the finances. That is a lot for a childless person to have to assume. …and yes, they need to be warned about the realities of what a “ready-made-family” is all about the same way that you feel young women need to be put “ON GAME” when it comes to the realities of raising children alone. There are negatives that come with that situation that sometimes may not be any fault of your own. So NO…you are not on par with childless women.
        2.) I take zero issue with you searching for a man with children who is established. He would be much better suited for the day to day operations involved with a woman with multiple children as he has experience.

        Yes…there is a “childless revolution” going on today. We no longer accept the idea that those who engaged in irresponsible behavior are magically on par with us any longer. Those days are over.

        Physically and mentally, you may be able to “compete” with the childless women, but logistically…you CANNOT!.
        As I said, you cannot even compete with YOUR own “childless” self (11-12 years ago).

        And yes, logistics DO matter.

        I did not read into your blog about love languages too much. That is what responsible people do.
        Just as you feel there is a “rage” going against single mothers (searching for childless men)… we feel there is a “rage” against critical thinking with those of who do it.
        We already have to accept the fact that people think we are boring, lame, nerdy…in other words, we have EARNED the title of RESPONSIBLE.
        No you will not take emotion based drive and place it laterally next to fact based logic, understanding, thinking and planning.
        You will not place us in the same boat of “everyday fools” simply because we are not prophets who died for love. That might be the boat you placed yourself in which allowed some of the “not thinking too much” type behavior to go on. We are not trying to live in that boat…regardless of how “good” it feels.
        We don’t have to be on the level of “prophets” in order to be above BLATANT foolishness.

        Just as you said the women in your environment should have put you and your cousins and homies “ON GAME”
        It is our responsibility as childless men, to put younger men on game pertaining to the value of being childless.
        if that is dangerous, then I say it is dangerous that you place yourself in the same category as those who exercise restraint.
        ..and if you don’t make it clear to those young women you have the pleasure of putting ON GAME that they DO, in fact, have a higher value as childless women to most men, you are going to wind up doing them the same disservice that was done to you.

        Less “value” does not mean you are at the bottom of the food chain, but you damned sure are NOT at the top.

        Those women get priority and they should ……and YOU know they should.

        …and that is no reflection on the quality of the men YOU should date…..as long as those men have responsibilities similar to yours with children.

        Solo

  6. “I double moisturize my body, because my skin soaks up coconut oil quickly so I back it up with almond oil. I’m tall, a lot of body, this takes awhile.”

    There is a flip side of this coin….

    See I can relate to your story…from a childless standpoint.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/19/81/0819813f838c4f37b646504fe38c8426.jpg

    corvette roadster…very sexy machine

    (condensed story version)

    I had one years ago…and I remember going to pick up a lady I was seeing. She was also the type to double moisturize. Really made herself “convertible vette” level cute.
    She, like you, had two children.
    After three weekends of having her children, their father was taking them this weekend. We had a date. I spent the early part of the morning washing and later waxing the car. Picked up my dry cleaning, did the shower, dressed and headed out. Cool jazz playing through the sound system as I cruised to pick her up with the top down. Summer day.
    I arrived to the sound of her children running out to see the car (because they liked the car) and her explaining they would be home for the weekend…again.
    She thought, well, it does not have to be a totally ruined weekend, we could still go out to the movies but we just have to take the children.

    oh…what a great idea, too bad by definition, a “roadster” is a two-seater convertible. Not exactly designed for a family of four.
    Even with her double-moisturized legs and her sexy heels….miraculously none of her other great qualities could change the fact that our plans were ruined for that weekend. almost 4 hours of cleaning the car and another hour getting ready.

    yeah…we could just rent a movie, pop some microwave popcorn and have fun with THE or HER (which one is it?) kids.

    But it would not be as fun as cruising around with her with the top down looking cute.

    Suddenly out of nowhere, the appeal of a childless woman creeps into the mind of the corvette owner.

    Jus’ sayin’

  7. Litsha….you are probably physically attractive enough for a man to want to cruise with you in his corvette or whatever “whip” he roams the metropolitan area in.
    Based on your writing, I would say you creative and witty enough to hold a stimulating conversation with the owner of said cool ass cruising machine.

    Unfortunately though, YOUR family will not fit in a roadster. (or whatever non-family based “babe magnet” your potential dude drives)

    That is a mathematical impossibility.

    Dating does not end at 35 for a woman (despite what mainstream society says). There is a second wind of dating, relationships and marriages following your late 30s (assuming your children will be grown by then) .
    Keep your health, stay fit….believe me, there will be a rebirth of available people at that point.
    Divorcees with children and without, Childless and childFREE people, serial daters, idiots, smooth talkers, interesting and non-interesting alike. At that point, no one will care because most people that age are no longer dealing with the day to day operations of children. They might have grandchildren…can’t lie to you about that. But there is a whole dating life still going on later. Those qualities you speak of will give you THE EDGE you speak of here….FOR REAL!

    Yeah…you can do whatever the hell you want to do…but yes, there is a movement with men especially warning young childless men about the pitfalls of dating single mothers.

    However….if you are dealing with men with children, the sky is the limit!

    Solo

    • I read your corvette story. It sounds to me that you just don’t want a woman with kids. And I think because you feel so passionately about it you think that all men should or do and that is my point– everyone doesn’t look at it as a negative.

      Some guys say, “bring the kids!” Without being asked and with extra enthusiasm. Everyone doesnt share the same idea of “negative”. For example, I would date a blind man. I’ve talked to some people about disagree about that being someone they would want to date. For me, I think there would be an extra burden, but if the other qualities I wanted were there than the burden would be minuscule.

      The moment we try to force everyone to agree with our preferences is when things get dangerous.

      Example: Dating white women is better than dating black women vs. I just prefer dating white women (see the difference)

      Dating women with children is a bad idea vs. I just prefer not to date women with children (see the difference)

      One part of the statement goes on a dangerous slippery slope of creating hate and disparagement while the other puts the preference in the hands of the owner and allows people the freedom to live their life as they choose.

      I have been told that dating is different once older, but again, I don’t plan on stopping dating. Why should I? If it doesn’t work out then it just doesn’t but giving up on love is never an option, life isn’t guaranteed and I don’t plan on waiting around.

      • Responding to the double moisturizing/vette convo…

        First and foremost, I did not say STOP dating. I was simply saying that all of your wonder woman super powers will have greater advantage once your children are grown.
        You take that any way you want.

        All I was trying to do was show you what your double moisturizing story looks like from the perspective of a childless man. Granted my story was not exactly the same, but there is a major parallel point.

        The man was in his sweats, (yeah, I have to agree with you, that was fucked up) and then he gets a call and your time has to be cut short.

        Ok, yes…this is FUCKED UP too. I feel your issue with this.
        However, time being cut short with single mothers is a given! …and I would imagine, time being cut short with a single father or a man with kids is also a given. In other words, time being cut short is common place with people who are PARENTS!

        Using your quote:
        “But all I could think is where is this going? How often do we do this before we do something else? You’re too expensive for such a cheap experience, what exactly am I investing in? I’m caught between wanting to be your fantasy girl who just gets it. But I don’t get it.”

        Let’s say that he just got a call for something important or let’s say he got a call for some bullshit…and let’s say he was childless.
        It really does not matter because at the end of the day, it felt like a “cheap experience” to you…right?
        But let’s say he is also a father and his time was cut short with you because of an emergency with his own children.
        The experience would still feel “cheap” to you at that point?

        Do you think “I” felt any differently than you did when I showed up for a leisure evening of cruising around and enjoying a summer evening with her?
        Seemed pretty “cheap” to me as well. …but the children are innocent in this, SHE is NOT!

        I am looking at your story and while I understand your frustration with that unfortunate day, UNFORTUNATE days like that happen quite often when you are dealing with a single mother. ..and while I understand your therapeutic glimpse of insight into that moment that is frozen in time, I am also looking at you and saying, “pot meet kettle”.
        This is also what it is like dealing with YOU too.

        You ARE a mom and you don’t even want to deal with it when it happens to you! Think about that.
        Think about the fact that if you had known there would be days like this…you would not have made the decision you made to lock yourself into children (and single) at such a young age and definitely NOT without resources.
        …and yet you feel it is “dangerous” for me to teach young men that these are some of the realities that come with dating a single mother? …and that they should be avoided because of it?
        At the end of the day, they will still make up their own minds. What are you so worried about?

        The logistics! ….and your double moisturizing story is a classic example of an example of how much you don’t even like the logistics. As you said, it was not “fun”.

        You teach young women the perils of what it is really like. You are teaching them to avoid the errors that you made. Ok fine, but then you don’t want to tell them the truth about men “preferring” to deal with childless women because they also don’t want to deal with the perils that come with single motherhood?
        You don’t want to make the childless woman status a “premium”. Or maybe you do, but you don’t want what childless men usually “prefer” to be part of that equation?

        For the record Litsha, I agree with some of the things that were said on the show and I disagree with some…
        No, I do not think you should give your kids away to their respective fathers unless…
        1.) the child wants to go live with daddy
        2.) the father CAN properly provide and be a father to them

        I have been involved with single mothers a few times and I have definitely seen some fucked up dads.
        Though, why BOTH of them are not paying child support is mind blowing to me. However, I will not ask you why, but I will say this….it pisses many of us off. While yes, the family court system is totally out of its mind, this only contributes to a lot of childless men feeling like here is another dude that did what the fuck he wanted to do, took a premium chick off the market and locked her into parenthood…and then walked away. He will be one of the ones that loves to tell us (’cause they do DO this shit) how he got it when it was young and fresh and he did not have to pay for shit while one of us is trying to work this mess out and get it on some sort of track (and this includes FINANCES!). This is ANOTHER REASON why childless men are discouraged from dating single mothers, because there is a “sucker” aspect to it.

        I also did not agree with the idea of giving them to their fathers and then starting another family with the new husband.
        It’s bullshit because anything can happen, your children may have to return home and there is no sense in your new husband being hit suddenly with the reality that he now has three children in his home.
        Much better for a man to see the reality up front, close and personal.

        Again though, the main reason of this particular comment on the Vette/Double Moisturizer topic is YOU feel the same way when you are faced with the mirror of what it is like to deal with you.

        If you are “too expensive for such a cheap experience” …..how aren’t childless men too expensive for such a “cheap experience” when it comes to you or other single mothers?
        …and childless men and women for that matter, should be educated about these actual experiences so they know to avoid this.

        If the experience is “cheap” then you and a man with children should be the ones to figure that type of experience out to make it NOT so “cheap”. That is a responsibility that falls under dating while parenting (men and women)….NOT childless individuals.

        Solo

      • Again, incorrect information, I never said both of them were not paying child support and at this point with all of the lies being told about my personal life I don’t see the point in correcting it, its clear that his audience wants to believe a certain narrative so have at it, make up whatever makes you feel comfortable. My issue with the phone call was never about him saying that I should not have gotten myself into this situation, OBVIOUSLY DUH, I know that now, my issue was the assumptions made about my personal life and my mental health. Also the only advice he had was to give up my children and let a man discipline them, lol I’m not sure why I thought it was a good idea to call in, in retrospect

        Most of these stories will be deleted, I have a book coming out, my talent is in writing fiction so that is where the focus will be. I also realize that once you give even a piece of yourself to the public they run with it in ways that are unhealthy and unreal. This blog wasn’t about teaching women, while I know the tag is “life lessons” its more of me expressing things that I feel and lessons that i’ve learned. I wanted people to know that other people share their feelings. You can be as outraged as you want to be, but it doesn’t change that these are real feelings for a lot of people.

        You are entitled to your perspective. It seems you are trying to preach to me that I should not expect a man to take on a single mother when there are childless women out there. I don’t think you understand that I don’t have the expectation that anyone should do anything they do not want to do. The way you are speaking you would think that I am fighting you on this which is so confusing because I’m not. I’m not saying you’re wrong for feeling the way you feel. I am saying that I am not going to let your feelings effect how and who I date nor am I going to allow it to change my belief in self. We aren’t disagreeing. Yes we are more expensive. Yes there are more sacrifices. If its too much for you don’t take it on, if its not then date her, thats what im saying. Everything is not for everybody, what is wrong in saying that?

        I don’t automatically view having children as a negative which is why I refuse to call me a cheap experience. It may not be an experience everyone wants but that doesnt make it cheap. If you have all of these feelings against single mothers than I don’t understand why you date them, seems like an easy solve to just not do it. No harm, no foul.

        It seems, again, that you are just angry about your personal experiences, because there’s nothing to debate here. I haven’t disagreed that some men view single mothers as a burden, fine. I don’t have to take your feelings and make them my own. I refuse to view myself as a burden, I don’t have time for that type of thinking, its unproductive. If a man rejects me because I have children, it is not the end of the world, life goes on.

      • Part 2.

        I also want to add, in reference to the sucker aspect, I think you’re only a sucker if she rejected you before the kids and then wanted you after. If you didn’t know the woman than how can you be a sucker? If her intentions are pure and you both love each other, there is nothing “sucker” about that. Every situation is different, but no one wakes up praying to be a single mother, my intention isn’t to sucker anybody, everything is on the table he either accepts it or he doesn’t.

        This desire to believe someone is getting over on you or suckering you or making you into a beta is a huge problem. That fear is baggage in itself, that to be honest, I would never want to deal with a man who has that problem, I have before and there’s nothing worse than constantly trying to prove yourself to someone who can’t be convinced. A real man knows his masculinity is in tact and doesnt have to question it, and if he does, thats a huge insecurity and not one he should take out on women who are simply looking for love.

        Furthermore, if this is an insecurity that he cannot get past he should just date women without kids. Easy solve.

        But what does telling me over and over again that men want women without kids do for you? What response are you expecting?
        All I can say is okay and still keep dating lol.

        And yes you’re right if I had no kids obviously I would have even more options, nothing that can be done about it so whats the point of fretting over it.

        You said I don’t teach women about what men prefer. That simply was just not the point of that post. Just because I don’t flush out every single reason to wait til marriage that means…. what exactly? I was focused on talking about what has been the major factors for me. I can only speak on what I feel, I haven’t had a difficult time being courted so it didn’t cross my mind to mention something that wasn’t my reality.

        It wasn’t until recently that I had a partner who didn’t want to take on kids, and that is what led me to calling into the show, I wanted to see what could be done to decrease the odds of that occurring again as that, in the past was never an issue for me, I wanted to know what would make a man would be more open to the idea. And instead I’ve been bashed, berated, and lied on while given no real answer to my question outside of: don’t date or give up your kids.

        Its rare that a man rejects me for having kids, but the time it did happen really effected me because I loved the person dearly and could have seen myself spending the rest of my life with him. But it didn’t work, life goes on, and I am okay with that.

  8. Sigh. You sound like everyone on the call who continue to make assumptions, its difficult to see you as the responsible man that you claim to be when you irresponsibly assume so much, but here we go…

    I’ll address each in the order you wrote them:
    1. Pros and cons are for each individual to decide. A woman who only offers a fresh womb and nothing else, to some men, cannot compete with me, a mother. I know this as I have been chosen over beautiful women with no kids before. Its all about what you value. Some men feel like what I bring to the table is a fair enough trade off for providing financially, especially if they are the type of man who values rebuilding black family. This may not be the case for you, but it is the case for some and as long as that market of men exists I will be alright.
    I have met many men who did not look at me as less of an option for having kids. In fact, some men appreciated it and saw it as a plus, particularly when they considered who I have become through it all, it sells them on the idea that a life with me could be manageable seeing how I am handling my family on my own.
    2. Yes I wrote this blog, but again, a good much of it is free expression, not a practice of how I live my life. For example, I may write a short piece about rage and wanting to do destructive things with that rage and all the things that come with that emotion. I think its unfair to then pin me to the post and say I need anger management and deduce all of these crazy claims out of something that was just a therapeutic release for me. Its something to leave on the pages more times than not and I figured that would be clear by the poetic writing style, but I’m realizing now that everything is up for grabs when its time for character assassination.

    I do not believe in acting out everything that is felt, I’ve said that multiple times and you keep preaching to me about discipline as if I haven’t addressed that already. I do practice discipline regularly, whats really insulting is having a complete stranger tell me what I do in the day-to-day of my life based on an expressive post. Wild.

    No one likes boring, that’s why I talked about it. I thought it would be interesting to play with the idea. But also boring is different for different people. What some people find boring in a man, I on the other hand may love. I think you’re looking into it far too deep. Again, this is expressing things that aren’t always correct to say, this is not the platform where every message is clear and concise, there are other blogs for that. I talk about what is felt. Not what is acted on. Not always what should be done. But what is felt. Its important to give attention to the darker sides of ourselves or we will go crazy. This by no means says to act on said feelings.

    I never said it was “cool” to be with a single mother, I said it is an individual choice and should men who choose to be with one should not be bashed. And women with children should not be discouraged from still wanting a good man. That’s my only point.

    I never said ready-made families aren’t more difficult, its about the individual to decide if they think the difficulty is worth it based on the woman that comes with it and where they both are in life.
    I’m not encouraging childless women to wait for a man with children because why? Lol. I don’t promote either gender doing anything they don’t want to. That’s not the point of this blog or my mission in life. I believe people should do whats best for them. I only made a post about waiting until marriage because I acknowledge that it is a decision I regret and wanted to spread awareness on that, but even then its not my niche or thing to beat over peoples head, again not what this blog is for.

    Maybe I’m arrogant, but you have to have unrealistic confidence to survive a world that tries to take you down at every angle. People like you who dedicate their time to trying to “humble” someone else are the reason I have built myself and refuse to be taken down. I get what I want out of life because I walk in like wonder woman and no one can take that from me. I’m sorry if my confidence offends you.

    In addressing the “non-needy” comment, again, this is artistic expression. The world couldn’t function if everyone was the same. There is meant to be a mix of people on this earth and some will be dysfunctional. There is someone out there for those people. I am not of the ilk that says everyone should be stoic and one track minded or that everyone should be wild and follow their every dream, there should continue to be a mix of people. This is not me preaching and/or saying that this is what I want in my life. This is meant to act as a glimpse into the mind of a woman who was in love and wanted to do anything to stay in that moment whether it was wrong or right. It wasn’t about discussing what was actually done in real life or what should be done, it wasn’t meant to be a philosophical treatise.

    You can continue to put men “on game,” I just don’t think its about game, I think its about doing what works best for your individual situation.

    I think the “childless revolution” is hateful and ignorant. I think this should not be a dogma but rather a matter of preference. There are plenty of blended family relationships that have been a success and I don’t see any reason why that should be discouraged or why it is anyone elses business outside of the people involved.

    You may say that I cannot compete with childless women but too me its much bigger than that, its about compatibility, feasibility, and what that man and woman want for their lives. To some men its not even a factor, I cannot stress this enough.

    I missed mentioning this earlier, but your comment on me not being a victim is ignorant. While I take accountability for making bad decisions, I think that to be that young and with the background I came from there is nothing that suggests I would be fit to make any mature decision. I am a victim of my childhood, but that doesn’t mean I am not taking responsibility—two things can be true at once. Taking accountability means making better decisions moving forward once realizing your error and that is what I’ve done.

    A man can make whatever woman he wants a priority, but how much insecurity would I have if I worried about that? I don’t date a man and worry about other women, I worry about what I have with him and that is what I will continue to do.

  9. My quote:
    “Though, why BOTH of them are not paying child support is mind blowing to me.”

    in other words, why AREN’T both of them paying? (but this was rhetorical anyway)

    I did not mean to imply that BOTH were not paying, I know that only one IS paying. That much I remember from the show.

  10. “It wasn’t until recently that I had a partner who didn’t want to take on kids, and that is what led me to calling into the show, I wanted to see what could be done to decrease the odds of that occurring again as that, in the past was never an issue for me, I wanted to know what would make a man would be more open to the idea. And instead I’ve been bashed, berated, and lied on while given no real answer to my question outside of: don’t date or give up your kids.

    Its rare that a man rejects me for having kids, but the time it did happen really effected me because I loved the person dearly and could have seen myself spending the rest of my life with him. But it didn’t work, life goes on, and I am okay with that.”

    You wanted to see what could be done to decrease the odds of that occurring again?

    Well this is one time I will say that “we” are definitely the wrong bunch to ask that question. I can’t apologize for Kev, but I can answer your question quite simply…

    You do have to date men who don’t have an issue with ready-made-families. I don’t think there is really a way to decrease the odds IF….IF the man does not want a ready-made-family.
    …and no, it’s not your fault that he does not. Yes, men come across women all of the time, who have kids and the man knows good and damned well, this is not something that he really “wants”, but he will indulge.
    Sort of like some of the things you said in the post…

    “I wanted to come off as the girl that doesn’t trip. The calm one who doesn’t come with a bunch of baggage. ”

    Childless men don’t want to seem like a bad guy either. Many of us came from broken or extended homes. We try to act like this is not an issue…but for those who do have the issue, as you can see, it runs to the bone.
    Sometimes it is done out of ignorance (if he has no experience with it). Still not an excuse though.
    Sometimes it is done out of loneliness. Men will try to fool themselves into thinking they can handle it. Since most “responsible” guys are geared for…well, RESPONSIBILITY, some of the realities that go on do carry a mechanical side to them. You just get in there and DO IT. ….but
    deep down inside, you feel “cheated” and you are seriously angry that you did not get her before she had children. That anger swells when things get knocked off course (as does happen when you have children).
    Some men can contain their anger and they walk away quietly… some don’t.

    …and then there is the attachment to the children. NO…all children are not evil monsters that some people make them out to be. Despite not being into the whole idea of a ready-made-family, you will form bonds with some of the children (especially if you are not a complete asshole). That can be very difficult to break. The heartbreak does not just go in one direction. Children are so innocent in it and most of the time (if they like you) they don’t understand why you left and that rips you apart as well.

    I gave up on dating single mothers many years ago and yes, I do caution young men from going down that road.

    The “sucker” aspect is only magnified if the chick circles back around to you AFTER she has children as you said. However, the sucker aspect is still there, perhaps a non-magnified version when the father of the children speak about how they aren’t doing shit for their ex (and this does go on). Barbershop talk does happen.
    It’s not a pretty sight and your posts on this blog, in particularly the one about love languages damn near co-signs the reckless behavior that a lot of these guys roam with.
    I know that is not nor was it your intention when you wrote it….but speaking “positively” (publicly) about any experience, no matter how good it was at the time, that lands you in a situation where a different man has to take on the responsibility of the “other” half of the equation that helped cause your situation…..is insulting.
    It’s especially insulting if one of those you “mocked” has to help clean up the fallout of your experience.

    The only thing I can tell you is if you come off as arrogant or even confident about your odds when speaking about dating childless people… If you are in an earshot of those who don’t appreciate it, they will slam you about it. I am not saying it is right…believe me, I am not saying it is right..but, today, yeah..it will happen. The more confident, the harder the slam.
    There is no “organized” movement against single mothers and childless men, but there is definitely an informal unity among many childless people when it comes to this subject. …and we are much more vocal about it than we ever have been.

  11. I agree on everything you said about the reasons men go along with it knowing its not what they really want, because some of those things happened in my situation.

    I do not agree that I am co-signing irresponsible men in my posts, to me it is artistic expression and a safe space that I created to say what you feel regardless if it is right or wrong, there are no boundaries here. For a long time I worried about people like you who would get insulted if I wrote about certain topics in honesty and then I realized that its people like me who keep the world accountable. Its the artists. Its the creators who say things how they are without politics and other bias’ at play. I do not take up a role as a writer to tell people only the things that will make their life better, but to show them things that have also made life worse or interesting or weird. I exercise that freedom freely. Your feeling of being offended is not my responsibility, in fact, I think its more telling on why I should always write what I feel because if it stirs something inside of you that means there is something there that needs reconsidering and a deeper look. I do not want to censor myself or only write things that are fluffy and make people feel good, there are a million places that people can go for that content, I’m not interested.

    What I write about is not always what I practice and I hope that people can tell the difference and or use their better judgement on what is right from wrong. What I do feel is my moral obligation though is to make sure that I am not instructing people to do something wrong, that is another thing entirely. I will never tell anyone to make a decision that is wrong. I am just expressing myself and there is nothing wrong with that, its just not your thing and thats fine, its someone elses. Many women have told me they value the way I put their thoughts into words and I will never take that for granted. While blogging about my relationships has reached an expiration date, my books will continue with the same sort of freedom, only its fictional.

    When you mention barbershop talk then I see why you use the term “suckered”. That’s really horrible that men brag about not taking care of their children. But there’s also not much a woman can do to force a man to take care of his kids outside of child support and even then men finds way around either not paying or paying as small amount as possible. I feel suckered because of the men that I chose, I feel suckered because I didn’t know better. It sucks, but can’t be undone, which is why it is frustrating having to keep talking about it when its a done situation that cannot be repaired. Going over the past is futile, particularly when I have already learned the lessons.

    I’ve only been slammed about this topic online, people don’t act like the commentators on his show in real life, another reason why I can’t take it that seriously.

    Have I been slammed for being arrogant in general? Yes. I’m sure you’d hate my opinion on many other topics, I do not share a lot of popular beliefs and ideals of the world, I’m used to being on the outside, which is another reason why I wouldn’t want a man who cares about what others think of him dating a single mother (going back to our earlier conversation), because if I am strong enough to maintain my own opinions then I need my man to be the same. I’m not a match for someone who follows what the crowd does.

    I think its weird that my confidence in being able to get a man with no kids is offensive. I really don’t see how that is offensive lol. Especially if it doesnt apply to the person who is offended. Especially if its true! The truth is, most men I date do not have kids, this isn’t really about confidence at this point, its about knowing that, that is the demographic I attract. If I say, “my odds of securing a man with no kids is high” is based on truth because that has been my experience, how can anyone get angry with ME about that. I would agree my odds are low if that had been my experience.

    And to be honest, there have been only two men in my entire life who wouldnt date me because I had kids. One of the men didn’t know me, we exchanged numbers, I brought up being a mother and then he declined. The other man is the guy I told you about that I loved. The latter guy probably could have been convinced but there were other things happening that I believe also played a part. Most men who I have compatibility with usually love what we have enough to keep going. My confidence comes from knowing what a connection does to a man. A connection with a good ass woman. A woman who meets all of his needs in ways he never imagined. I meet needs that niggas didn’t even know they had. When that happens, suddenly “no” becomes “maybe”.

    Nevertheless, this dialogue has been interesting.
    I still don’t think we were ever disagreeing about much, I think you just don’t like my posts and that I’m a single mother lol.
    What I will say is, knowing what you have said, I definitely will be having deeper conversations with the next man I date when it comes to his perspective on being a step father. I never thought to really go this deep into it as we have because again, it was never presented to me in a way that made me have to. I want to protect both of us. I do not want my man to be resentful and I don’t want to choose wrong.

    Life.

  12. Speaking of decreasing the odds though…

    My father was involved with a woman with three children following his divorce from my mother. He was with her (the woman with children) for 25 years until his death. There father passed away (I don’t know the age they were when he passed away).

    The first time I got involved with a single mother, my father cautioned me against it. No real explanation was given.
    When I asked about his own involvement he stated quite clearly, “those children have a social security check and insurance money from their deceased father. There is no way I would be there if I had to foot the bill.”

    In my case, there was no child support, no social security.

    I don’t know if that decreases the odds or if there are other factors which decrease the odds. Maybe there are and maybe there are not.
    I don’t know if my dad qualifies as a man who has no issue or is that a man masquerading as a man who has no issue. There was no real way to know because their support was already in place when he and their mother got together. That is not to say he contributed nothing, but he did not HAVE to do it. So it was “optional” to an extent. He did not have to take on the responsibilities of her children as though he was their real father.

    A man has to look at the extenuating circumstances. But now that I think about it, if he decides whether to be with you based on the “condition” of the extenuating circumstances…then it is definitely conditional at best.

    But I will say, if you found men who had zero issue with you having kids and finances (meaning what support or other resources you may have had or not had) was not an issue… If they just liked you that much and did not care about the rest and was willing to take it on and figure it out as you all go or maybe he had a hell of a plan… …and the guy was childless???(rhetorical) yeah, I would say you definitely found the true definition of acceptance. Yeah…a guy like THAT has no issue.

    I can’t even say I can tell you how to “read” men who have issues with it…because, not all are honest about it. But that is something that comes with experience on your end.
    I would say if you are hearing anything that hints around to any of the things that have been discussed here, then you know what you are dealing with.

  13. I do agree that most men are not honest about it, this is all new to me, its a whole new world of this being a “thing” for lack of a better title.

    I do think the finances plays a big part, however, I notice that men who have a lot of disposable income and don’t have an obsessive attachment to money seem to be more willing because money just isn’t a huge deal to them; they have a surplus of it. Those type of men seem to concern themselves more with the parenting aspect at that point. They wonder how much time they will have alone with me. How involved are the fathers (they seem to prefer the fathers be as uninvolved as possible). How will the children adapt etc.

    • I could afford it, but I had to tighten my belt to do so and there are so many things you have to SUDDENLY consider.
      The corvette would have to go.
      The motorcycle would have to go (that should go the minute you become a parent or step-parent…motorcycles are very unforgiving.)
      You have to think about the neighborhood you live in. Whether the public schools are “ok”. Oh? they’re not? How much is a private education going to cost me? (rhetorical)
      When you are childless, there are a lot of things you don’t have to consider.
      sidenote: (you would be surprised how many MOTHERS have not even thought about this.)
      Medical coverage…what may have been “good” for you as a single man suddenly has to be modified to accommodate her and her children. (even if she has some insurance…is it really enough?)
      Dental too.
      …and yes, how much time you actually get with her. Yeah…the double moisturizing moments turn into hours and sometimes the rest of the evening or weeks.
      Parent teacher conferences, school clothing, sports, music, dance.
      (sidenote: if the woman is an artist, this can be challenging if she carries an artist’s mindset. Artist don’t always make consistent money with their craft…so you really do get the majority of the bill.
      Some artistic women are so clueless they often don’t understand why the man works as much as he does instead of taking time out for his own art (if he WAS an artist at one point…yeah, I used to be a drummer) …and you just look at her in with a side eye (BECAUSE THERE ARE THREE, FOUR OR FIVE OF US…lady… that have to eat….lol!).

      Another issue is MORE children, depending on the guy. I don’t believe in mixing DNA. I grew up with a half sibling and it was not anything I ever want repeated. As I said, she felt “judged” because I did not want any with her. (its not like I was going to go out and have some elsewhere) …but the point is, she was not used to looking at the finances or resources and making decisions from that standpoint. She was used to following her heart and apparently that is what she was used to with the men she dealt with.
      Hence your “love language” post.

      The point in all of this is….there is a whole lot that you have to consider and sometimes there are things that you “might” KNOW BETTER than the mother when it comes to responsibilities…and this can also turn into a conflict because she might not be used to MEN thinking in those terms. A lot of women have gotten used to running their own household and they are not used to listening to a man in these areas. …and then those ugly terms enter the room “patriarchy vs. matriarchy”.

      Sometimes there is silent guilt you deal with. The times when you go somewhere with one of the children and someone questions you about YOUR child. Sometimes you have a moment where you are like (in your head) “I did not do this” …and there is an instant guilt you feel. Or you have a hard time saying whether you are a parent or whether you are a step-parent.
      …and like I said, biological fathers can make shit worse. Yes, sometimes it is better if they are not around, but…by the same token, if a child wants a relationship with their father, you know it is unwise to block that for your own personal reasons. I wanted one with my father as a kid and I did not particularly care for my stepfather.

      There is a laundry list of issues when dealing with a single mother and the less experience a young man has, the more likely he is to make serious errors. This is partially why I say single mothers should only deal with men who have children too.
      Yes, I can see and I also KNOW the advantage to dating a childless man over a man with his own children if you have children yourself.
      One thing about it, since we are talking about dark conversations… I have had the ugly conversations that a few “Mothers” shared with me about their dating single fathers or men with children. I have also heard about their own guilt. How they felt some type of way when their husband/boyfriend/man received an increase in child support from his ex.
      How they hated to watch resources leave their house for his “other” children.
      I have relatives who have spoken to me about their husband’s child having to come and live with them. (and the anger and guilt they felt because deep down inside, they did not want that child there…because it was not HER child).

      The convos with childless women and their frustrations with men with children and the unexpected this or that. Oh yeah, your double moisturizing story is a common one with childless women who have dated men with children too. Obviously it is from a different perspective though.

      I would also like to say, since your blog is a place where dark thoughts reside in an artistic form, that’s cool. I was not looking for you to rectify anything I or anyone else may find offensive. No it’s not your responsibility to pacify anyone and I am sure you understand people’s dark responses come out too. One of the reasons people jump on topics like this (not that it is your job to be a case study) is many often wonder what IS behind some of the ideas that “parents” have when dealing with childless people.

      In polite society, NO…this is not a topic that is discussed by people from both sides of the parent/non-parent fence.
      I am only saying that to say, you don’t have to take any of it seriously if you choose not to. Yes, this is the internet, but… dark thoughts bring dark conversations.

  14. I think those are all important things to consider, but I do believe when you are in love with someone and ready to commit your life to them, when you know that the person you’re with truly adds more value to your life then the things you are complaining about just pale in comparison.

    What’s funny is, before I had kids, the main men who were attracted to me were men with kids. I was more than willing to treat the child(ren) like they were my own without a second thought. In fact, I transferred my love for the man into the child, it fueled me, I was proud to be considered as a possible step mom, it was role I was honored to take like being a godmother.

    I honestly think that anything can be flipped as a negative or a positive if you want to. The same things you are complaining about another would feel adds value to their life. Some men would like forward to building a bigger family. Some men would enjoy being able to change the woman he loves life. Some men want to be super man. There are people who adopt children, its possible to want to care for a child who is not yours. Some people simply love children, other people simply love being a positive change in anothers life, some people are just in love.

    I would embrace a man, who I loves, children without hesitation. I kind of already do as my kids have siblings, one in particular is a teenager and I wish that I could talk to her more to be honest. I think she is a great kid and I enjoy giving her advice and listening to her young mind.

    Your negatives are not universal. And I don’t want to be with a man who views my children as a negative honestly. I want him to be open, interested, and excited about expanding his family.

    And to address the matriarchy/patriarchy issue. That would not be a problem in my household particularly if he is the provider. I want a leader in my household, that turns me on. What concerns me is if I was to date a man that required me to still work (outside of what writing brings in), that, that would possibly effect his leverage in his household. If I still am taking care of everything its difficult to submit to you. So at that point he would have to decide if he is willing to give up being head of household, and I’d have to figure out if I can live with that.

    Yes artist income is inconsistent, but I pay close attention to my finances down to the penny. Most men who have money and no kids, I’ve noticed, actually spend pretty recklessly because they don’t have responsibilities. I’d argue that having a woman like myself as a partner would better my mans finances as im great at managing money. A lot of what I do in my day time job has to do with numbers and money. I’m logical by day and an artist at night.

    … I am okay with dark thoughts, I think when they are directed at debasing my character that is when I draw the line. I’ve worked hard to become the woman I am today and I won’t let that be called into question.

    I appreciate your thoughts, but with all due respect, I don’t want a man who is this frusturated about single mothers lol. As soon as a man says any of this that is a red flag that it won’t work. If there isn’t full enthusiasm about doing this with me than it shouldn’t be pursued at all because raising children is very difficult, you can’t half-heartedly do it. You need to want to do it when its good and when its bad. Family is a commitment that you will reap the rewards of if you stick to it.

    • “I appreciate your thoughts, but with all due respect, I don’t want a man who is this frusturated about single mothers lol. As soon as a man says any of this that is a red flag that it won’t work. If there isn’t full enthusiasm about doing this with me than it shouldn’t be pursued at all because raising children is very difficult, you can’t half-heartedly do it. You need to want to do it when its good and when its bad. Family is a commitment that you will reap the rewards of if you stick to it.”

      100% correct.

      …and this is why I stated if you were really looking for ways to reduce the odds of a repeat of your past love who had an issue, “we” (our type) were definitely the wrong group for that question.

      One piece of advice I will leave you with…
      Although I don’t know how you could reduce the odds… …this diatribe of conversation we have had contains a lot of information. Most of us are “easily” triggered with the right buzz words. It’s not something most of us can hide when triggered.
      You have the information and any of these topics can easily be mentioned in the right context and you should easily be able to start a chain reaction. No matter how much he tries to bury the red flags, any direct hit will start a chain reaction and you will KNOW.

      The beauty is, you WILL KNOW before he even knows he has been tapped. Thus giving you the upper hand to exit.

      Solo

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